Show Notes from Knup Sports Show

Show #203 – Thomas Christopher of Toppem Sports on the Knup Sports Show

Thomas Christopher

Thomas Christopher talks all about Toppem Sports, blockchain, and the future of the web3 space on Episode 203 of the Knup Sports Show.



RYAN KNUPPEL

Hey, what’s going on everybody? How’s everybody doing today? Welcome to the Knup Sports Episode 203. My name’s Ryan Knuppel here, your host each and every time. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode. We are just rocking and rolling up 200 now, so super excited for that. Have another amazing guest coming on but first I wanted to touch on my last week. I ended up at the Canadian Gaming Summit last week. I met so many people that listen to this show and said that they listen, so thank you for tuning in and letting me know that you do. What a great show it was there in Toronto. We had a booth there so really got to speak to a lot of people and just really dive into this industry even more, you know, that we call the iGaming industry. So, we hope to go to several more over the course of the year and meet many more audience members at upcoming events. Alright, so, without further ado, we’re going to jump into our featured guest today. Let me bring on Thomas Christopher of Toppem Sports. Thomas, how are you, my friend?

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Ryan, my man. How are you doing, brother?

RYAN KNUPPEL

Doing amazing, thank you for coming on with me Tom. I’m excited. Man, first off, how’s things going there in Turkey for you? You’rein Turkey, correct?

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Yeah, man. I’m on the coast out here in Turkey. It’s going really good. Beautiful weather, nice people, fresh food, super affordable living, no complaints.

RYAN KNUPPEL

That’s awesome. That’s cool. I’m jealous. I’ve never been to Turkey. It’s on the list. Maybe some day I’ll make it that way, but right now I’m just stuck here in the United States so we’ll see.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Mi casa, tu casa. [Laughs].

RYAN KNUPPEL

[Laughs]. There you go. So, Tom and I go back a little bit. I’m super excited to dive into what they do and hear his story and let you hear his story, but first off, Tom, I know, you know we’ve been connected over the years and and now you got me on as a managing partner of Toppem Sports, so I’ve been super excited to dive into what you’re doing, and really, the more I dive in the more I see, you know, the plan at Toppem, man, the more I’m excited for the future, and for what you have going on, and i know we’re gonna dive in to what Toppem is here in a bit, but I wanted to start with that and just say thank you to you because, you know, having me part of it has really opened my eyes to some things, and, you know, seeing how you operate this has been really awesome.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Thank you, Ryan. Nah, man, the pleasure is honestly all mine. I remember getting wind of who you were, I want to say about two, two and a half years ago on LinkedIn and I was super impressed by you. We have mutual connections, and so I was really excited to finally get a hold of you. So once we made connection and started to get to know each other, dynamite guy, you, your family, your brother, so it was more of my pleasure, to be honest with you, to have you on on board the team, and I love your passion, and more importantly, like, how open-minded you are, because I think, you know, for anything in life, whether it’s business, relationships, whatever it is, if you’re open minded, then you get to learn, you have the opportunity to learn and grow, and you just never know what opportunities are out there if you’re open. So, you know, we’re very alike. I think we’re both visionaries and futurists, see things before they happen, and with the way, you know, the world is working, going, transitioning to, it’s going digital, and that’ll bring us into our amazing virtual environment coming up at Toppem Sports.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Yeah, that’s amazing. Well, thank you for the kind words for sure, and it was also a pleasure getting to see you in person, I believe, at the iGaming NEXT event, or one of the events, you know, over the course of the year we went to. It was nice to hang with you and really get to know you a little bit and watch your dynamic personality on stage, I wanted to give you props for that because that was amazing as well.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Oh, thank you.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Make sure you get to an event that Thomas is speaking at, because he does a great job and certainly has a nice look to him there.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Thank you. I appreciate that very much. I was so happy that someone, I’m a big wrestling guy, so I had a wrestling reference, so I’m happy it didn’t go over, you know, people’s heads.

RYAN KNUPPEL

[Laughs]. Well, cool, well enough chit-chat here, Tom. I wanna dive into you first. I wanna understand what makes you tick, kind of where you came from, you know, what your journey is from a career side that led you to creating Toppem Sports.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Yeah, so I grew up in New York City. I have three other siblings, grew up with a mom and dad, but honestly it was more like a mom more than a dad. My mom was, she was so solid. My dad made, you know, good money and so forth and he owned a couple new stands out in the Wall Street area in the ’80s, but, you know, sometimes when you’re younger and you don’t, like, how do I explain, like if you don’t dive into some of the challenges that you see, that you have in life, sometimes as you get older things become more challenging to deal with. So he grew up in a negative environment, he grew up with a lot of gambling and alcohol and a lot of other things, right? So it put a lot of depression on my mom to come through not only as a breadwinner but being the mom and sometimes being the dad as well, right, with discipline, and love, and compassion, so that’s how I grew up, but to be honest with you, I wouldn’t have traded it in for anything, because, you know, it enforced more of, like, myself to really buckle down, be a role model to the best of my ability, to not have any excuses going through life, so I appreciate everything that I’ve been through, to be honest with you, so that’s how I grew up. I have a lot of admiration and appreciation with single mothers out there, a lot of, actually, yeah.

RYAN KNUPPEL

It’s amazing how sometimes adversity in our life, and the things that we go through that cause adversity ,you don’t understand at the time, but when you get older and get more mature and now you’re in the working world, you kind of see, like, “Oh, I learned some lessons from that and now know how to face day-to-day challenges because I’ve been there done that”, right? And so it’s amazing how everything kind of comes around based on how we grew up and things of that nature, so props to you for picking the positives from maybe what was a negative situation at one point, and making it positive. But that’s cool, so keep going on more with the career side and, kind of, you know, your work environment.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Yeah, so out in New York, you know, I played some hockey, I boxed, I did, I was an athlete, and once I found out that I wasn’t going to have the opportunity to play in the NHL, I said “Hmm, now what am I gonna do here?” Right? So, a lot of my friends, I’m on Long Island, they were in real estate, and they said, “Tom, you have a really nice personality, you need to get into real estate.” So I said “Alright, you know, nothing to lose.” So I answered an ad one day on Craigslist and I got my feet wet in the real estate market in residential real estate, renting apartments in Manhattan, some parts of New Jersey, and Queens. So I would work six or seven days, sometimes 12 hours a day, sometimes show up at 7:00 in the morning, get stood up by a client that was not there. But I love real estate, I love helping people, I have a passion for it, and so I spent 10 years in the real estate industry as an agent, as a broker, in New York State. Then, I went to Las Vegas in 2014 on a quick getaway, it was about four days, or three nights, actually, and at the time I started a B&B, or an Airbnb business, in the Wall Street area in New York City. So I went to Vegas, it was my first time going, and again, us being visionaries, I was like “I see a mini New York here in like 5 years.” And what I meant by that was luxury buildings with full service, like a grocery store in the lower lobby or a pool up top, with a gym and dry cleaning, and laundry, and all that good stuff. So I said “You know what? I’m not tied in New York. I’m giving myself two months, I’m gonna move out to Las Vegas, and I’m gonna start a B&B business.” And that’s exactly what I did.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Wow [inaudible], I mean that’s polar opposites there, you know, in the United States, they’re both busy, but you know, okay, so so now you’re in Vegas, you’re doing Airbnb, continue on.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

So, yeah, so, I didn’t have a proof of concept in Las Vegas, right? So I’m like, “Do I want to take out a mortgage? No, what if I fail?” you know? I didn’t think I was gonna fail, though; you just never know. So I hunted a couple of buildings down, buildings that would let me lease, and then I would sublease. So I give in, you know, my month’s rent, my month’s security, if it didn’t work, well okay, well what can I do? But, like most things, you’ve got some faith and blind intuition; oh, that’s my son over there, Elijah.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Oh, hey! All good.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

So it went really well, and I had a few units out there then I went to Mexico, got a couple units out there, and started up the B&B business. So then obviously the pandemic hit, and things got slowed down with travel, and the state of Nevada had something called PUA, which was Pandemic Unemployment Assistance, things like that, right, for when I was considered like a freelancer gig kind of thing. So they were supposed to give me, I think it’s like $44,000, but a lot of people during that time didn’t get what they were promised, then a lot of people lost their businesses and so forth. So my B&B business went down the drain. So that’s what happened with that B&B business. But it’s okay. Yeah, it’s okay because, yeah, go ahead Ryan.

RYAN KNUPPEL

So you have some sports interest in your background, you have a real estate background, you know, and we’re going to get to where Toppem was come from, but I’m starting to see kind of your interest, how this formed. Keep going and maybe how you kind of got into the web3 space, which maybe brought this all together, and maybe that’s part of the story, I’ll let you keep going, but I’m starting to connect the dots of where all this became a reality for you.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. So what happened was, obviously the business is gone, so I’m like, “What else do I like to do? What’s going on in the world, what makes sense?” I come from a sports background, I’ve been following blockchain and say cryptocurrency, which are two different things, they’re not the same, so I knew that the future was going in the digital direction, so then I started doing some more research, and I saw what NFTs were, what the main purposes of them were, and I said “Okay, what is going to really get my juices flowing now? I did real estate, residential, commercial real estate, I’ve done B&B. What else is going to really get me going here?” And I love fantasy sports. Not necessarily fantasy sports of, say, building your drafts and your team and so forth, but I like fantasy as in more of like you pick your team and then you earn points, so my vision of fantasy sports was more of like how can I combine traditional fantasy points with sports betting, because that has not been done before. So that’s one, so I thought, okay, I’ve got what I want to do. Now I need to blend this with the future, on blockchain technology. So I said “What is the actual product that can produce my passion, my why? What is going to resonate with other people?” Maybe some similar to me and so forth, and that’s all actually how Toppem Sports was born.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Amazing. I commend you for taking on a futuristic thing like this because it’s not easy, I mean, people want to, but to dive in and take that on is a whole another set of challenges. So tell us about Toppem Sports. Toppem Sports, I’ve got the site pulled up now, so give us, I know you gave us some high level there, but give us a little bit more guts on what you’re building, what it is, where you’re at, kind of what the business is consisting of.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Yeah, so Toppem Sports, purely, is a fan engagement brand. That’s what we are what is that mean well we have different avenues, different umbrellas underneath us. So, for example, we’re coming out with our virtual environment called Central, and it’s home to the fantasy sports book tomorrow. So it’s a, I believe And I’m not trying to sound biased, but I believe it’s the most innovative product that will be on the market very in the near future. What it’s going to do is it’s going to combine the aesthetic feel of going to a live sportsbook casino in Las Vegas with attending an iGaming NEXT conference or an SBC into one virtual environment where you have your digital collectible, your NFT, you have your pets, you have your exclusive access to the platform and you get to engage with other community members on a global level, you get to see all of our partners, our exclusive offers, our virtual meet and greets, amongst many others. You get to participate in amazing daily, weekly, monthly tournaments along with other gaming products, sorry, gaming concepts that will be coming out later on, You get to build that real sense of community, because that’s what, you know, web3 is. It’s a sense of community, it’s a sense of inclusive Belongingness and that’s exactly what we’re going to be bringing in this virtual environment. So, you know, if you’ve got your brother and he’s out in Chicago and obviously you guys, you know, it costs money to go out Las Vegas every time and go hang out. But what if you had your pass to go virtual, and you guys can watch your favorite, I don’t know, football game? I don’t know, maybe it’s the Jaguars playing the Philadelphia Eagles, and you get to have that experience with your brother and other people around the globe, because we have amazing Partners where, you can actually watch a game and be set up in your own private room, and then you get to participate in different tournaments and have the ability to win amazing prizes, or maybe meet your favorite, I don’t know, celebrity, music star, so forth with our partnerships. That’s what we’re bringing to the table. We’re bringing a digital sportsbook, just like you would see in Las Vegas with the glitz and glamor. Big board, big screens, same exact environment but virtually, where you can be on the train and you’re not going to miss anything. We’ve got all the latest updates through our amazing partnerships, again. We are Las Vegas but virtually. That’s what Toppem Sports is as a virtual product.

RYAN KNUPPEL

I love that, and it’s getting me all excited all over again I am acting like, like I already know this, but it’s getting me all juiced up, all jacked up again from hearing you talk about it, and I think listeners They’re probably thinking the same thing like “Wow this sounds awesome, this sounds like an amazing experience. Tell us how far we are from like reality of this actually being a thing, and, one, and, secondly, to make this happen, what kind of kind of tech will the consumer need to be able to experience Central and be a part of all of this? Explain a little bit about like, what the consumer is going to need, and how far are we from this being reality.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Awesome, yeah, so I like simple stupid things, you know, but I like the better quality that’s available out there, so it’s a matter of walking that fine line right because, you know, the metaverse term and so forth like for me what the mainstream metaverse is it’s very over-the-top, cartoon animated, from my perspective anyway, so, and I could be wrong here, but I think that fantasy players, sports players, we’ll say gamblers, we’ll say athletes, I think that they appreciate, say, what the metaverse is or can be in the future, but maybe to have something there of the middle, where you can have animations, right, but at the same time have that realistic feel to it. So, when we are producing our virtual environment Central, we wanted to have that blend, to meet in the middle there where it doesn’t scare off people. We want to be welcoming and inviting, and we want to be really, you know, really user-friendly. It’s so important. If you walk into an environment And everything’s coming at you, it’s like, “Whoa, I mean, what is going on here?” you know, but if it’s really simple, “Hey, this is where you sign up for a tournament,” we have a prompt “Hey how do I navigate the site, how do I find my partners?” Thanks to our amazing partnership with jada.ai, you’ll be able to talk with an AI who will navigate you through the entire environment in different languages. We make it simple, fun, and of the better technology that’s going to produce the results that we believe can transition a web2 person into a web3 environment, more importantly, an environment built on a blockchain.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Very cool. Thank you for that. So you mentioned two or three times already your amazing partners, you know, you just mentioned jada.ai, can you expand a little bit on some of the partners and, you know, different things that are coming on board here with you, maybe expand on some of the partnerships that are on board.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Yeah, so I can’t necessarily get into specifics because I’d rather when we are ready to go and marketing, I’d rather it be announced there. But I can say that we are partnered with a wrestling organization in North America, and we’re really excited about that. They’re going to be having a show at the end of this month, so we’re excited about that. We will be developing their blockchain / digital collectible ecosystem, so we’re pretty excited about that and seeing what we can do on the fantasy side to see the relation of real-season fantasy with wrestling on the blockchain. Me, personally, I believe there’s a lot of potential there, so really interested in exploring that. And the fans of the organization are going to be really happy with what we’re going to be doing, and someone rewards and incentives and so forth, so, excited about that. We’re partnered with a web3 music company, and can’t really much go into detail about that, but, you know, some really good artists, some mainstream, so our stakeholders have a really good opportunity to really engage and have some immersive experiences. I already mentioned jada.ai, so really excited about that as well. It’s a responsible AI built, you know, AI is a very interesting topic, and those who are at the forefront, you know, bear responsibility, one way or the other, so we were very conscious partnering with the right companies, and we’re really excited to have to be partnered with the [inaudible] and jada.ai.

RYAN KNUPPEL

That’s awesome. That sounds like some great partnerships, Tom, and I’m sure many more to come, and many more in the works, and all the above, and so, you know, we’ll have to have Episode 2 to really expand on all of this six months down the road. I want to ask you something, maybe not Toppem related, but a little more web3 related in general or whatever [inaudible] web3 people wanna call it, because I feel like, from a public perception side, there was a momentum, there was a lot of noise on and around that space there, oh you know, maybe around pandemic or the years after there, but I feel like there’s been a little bit of a lull in that excitement, and maybe it’s just the public perception. Can you share your thoughts, in general, and if you still feel like that whole space is the future, and just where we’re at an industry side of web3 and blockchain.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Great question. I think that, like anything in life, everything, for the most part, I would say is timing, and it’s like when you go to dinner, and you’re eating a five-course meal and you have your appetizer, you’re getting warmed up, you have your warm-up, you never just going to go straight into the meal, right? You want to get the juices flowing, the taste buds going, the excitement, right? So I very much related to that. It’s just the beginning, it’s a warm-up, and it’s inevitable. The system is analog, going digital, you know, I’m not trying to sound pessimistic, but perhaps we’re just another pandemic away from really going virtual. So, again, that’s why we’re, you know, we’re preparing and building that virtual environment, not necessarily for another pandemic. But people like convenience. It just is what it is. Sometimes it’s easier for you to just go on your laptop or go on your phone in order to do things. So we want to build upon that and build the best possible product and amazing concepts, gaming concepts, for the people. So we believe it’s inevitable; it’s just a matter of when.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Thank you for that. So let’s talk about your needs and your challenges as a company cuz we all know startups and young companies have plenty of them, and so what are you looking for? As you guys look to the future, what are some things that maybe the company needs or that you’re trying that potentially the audience can help with, or somebody in the audience is maybe listening, “Oh, I can help in that space.” What types of things are you looking at that you need a little help with?

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Yeah so once we get going towards marketing, and get our investors, I would say feedback. You know, honest feedback as to how you think we’re doing, and how can we improve. You know, I equate this to, again, I’m a big wrestling guy, and I think the biggest and best wrestling products are the ones that listen to the audience. Maybe not 100%, right, because in the end, you know, you got to plan ahead for the storylines in the future, and if that’s not going to make sense, what was suggested, maybe later on down the road, it will. So, the audience, you know, we’re building a very intimate relationship where we’re not necessarily looking for the quantity of people, we’re looking for the qualitative approach, so if you give us a million users as opposed to 100,000 honest, loyal users, stakeholders, for us, that’s what’s more preferenced, that’s what’s more preferable, because scaling, how do I explain this, our concept is very much “Hey, here is your digital collectible, this is your access pass, you own it.” We can never lose the pulse of our community with that approach because if we’re not doing what we can be doing to the better of our ability, and that includes listening and applying these concepts, then our mints aren’t going to be sold out, and if our mints aren’t sold out that means our users aren’t there, so again, we have a different mindset of the approach of how to go about business and scalability. So again, we aren’t going to go anywhere without our stakeholders, without our audience, and so forth, and it’s built that way on purpose because we’re not looking for a get-rich-quick kind of thing. We want to build a legacy, and in order for that to happen, we need everyone in the community to work with us, and we work with you guys, and we all succeed together, and we do something that has never been done before. That’s the goal.

RYAN KNUPPEL

To unpack that, I think what you’re doing is certainly innovative and exciting to many, and I know I’m certainly excited about it. You know, I could talk about this all day with you. I just think it’s so exciting and I guess innovative, but for lack of time, we need to have episode 2 with Tom, maybe in three more months when you guys have made progress, but tell me a little bit about, before I let you go, tell me about the future, where that’s at, what it is, is it simply just more development getting your investment, all of the above, building your product out, getting it out to market, or what else is coming in the future for you guys?

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Yeah, it’s as simple as that, to be honest with you. Once we have our investment we’re going to go through months of really strategical marketing, announcing our partnerships, and more on board. Then from there, we will roll out the environment. We’re pretty excited about it and what it’s going to feature and so forth. Later on, after it’s been built out, and things are rocking and rolling, we’re going to introduce some really exciting gaming concepts within fantasy sports that have not been done before, and are really really, how do I explain, that just are really cool, especially from, say a player prop perspective. Yeah, we’ll be combining some single-player props with actual betting odds. So that has not been done before. What you see is, like, you know “Will Patrick Mahomes go over 334 1/2 yards” or something We’re doing something on steroids, no, like, you know these companies won’t have come in touch with, trust me. So we’re pretty excited about that. There is something that I definitely want to get into real fast, if you don’t mind, Ryan.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Yeah. Absolutely.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

So how do you play our version of fantasy sports daily weekly monthly tournaments so again, I hit on how innovative we are in our ecosystem and combining fantasy traditional points and sports betting. So what we do is we give our stakeholders seven games to choose from. Each game is worth $100 in virtual cash. We’re not a gambling platform, there’s never any bets placed, just simply you enter your tournament have fun, kick back, relax, right? hopefully you win. So, each game is worth $100 in virtual cash. That’s correlated to the pre-match odds. So let’s say, for example, the New York Knicks are playing the Brooklyn Nets. The Knicks are underdog on the moneyline. You choose them, they win, you get one winning selection, three points, because they were underdog on the moneyline. Let’s say they were +200, so that means your $100 in virtual cash, you’ll make a $200 profit. Winning selections, points, profits, never been done before, totally innovative, and it leaves everyone a chance. What I mean by that is essentially you’re putting in a seven-team parlay, but individually matched, right? Normally, if you lose a game, you’re toast, unless you do round robin. Here, you’re always alive. You can lose one game, but because this is a game of skill, you can actually win a tournament, because you have four underdogs on the moneyline, and that gave you more points and profits. so again our concept is really for everyone, so the typical fantasy sports player, someone who loves parlays, someone who, this is for some people who are going to appreciate skill. So again, we’re pretty excited about what we are going to bring to the table.

RYAN KNUPPEL

I bet. I mean, you should be excited. I’m excited as well. I’m sure the listeners are excited about the future and probably trying to put it all together in their mind. You know, I run across a lot of people who apprehend web3 and everything that goes into it, and some people just don’t get it yet but I think that’s part of the education of the world, you know, because there are some concepts there in that world that are just foreign to us, and so I think learning that space and as that space becomes more familiar with people they’re going to be like “Oh, Tom was talking about this 2 years ago”, or whatever timeframe that was, you know, being ahead of the curve and thinking, and so I think the audience, once they get educated on it is going to be like “Okay, wow, connect the dots, I get it, I think that’s awesome.” So, again, props to you on the forward thinking, Tom, and I’m right with you, I love that space completely. You mixing sports in there, two thumbs up for that.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Thank you, I appreciate it, and I think, you know, again, I think people would be less apprehensive, and if you wanna go fearful, in a playful way, using the word fearful, of web3 and blockchain, if the people who were more educated, who are the ones teaching, would use simpler terminologies, simpler definitions, you know, I think that…

RYAN KNUPPEL

I agree.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Thank you, you know, over-complication of things is, that’s what happens, it’s over complicated, you know what I mean, and it’s like, who wants to deal with that? You want to go eat your food, you know, just go eat your food, that’s what you want. You know what you want, you don’t necessarily want to hear what all the ingredients are unless you ask, you know? [Laughs].

RYAN KNUPPEL

Oh yeah. [Laughs]. Yeah. Awesome, well, Tom, I’m gonna let you go here for sake of time, I know you’re a busy man, got a lot to do, but if somebody listening wants to get a hold of you, and learn more about Toppem Sports, how would they make that happen?

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Yeah, just go to www.toppemsports.io, you can reach me at tom@toppemsports.io.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Toppemsports.io, tom@toppemsports.io, we’ll make sure to put those in the show notes, so everybody can click and get a hold of you, and contact you from here. But, Tom, this has been amazing, you know, I wish you best of luck, and of course, I’m gonna be there alongside of you and help you through this journey as well the best that I can, and I’m excited to take that path with you here.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Awesome, Ryan. Dude, I really appreciate you, Ryan, you’re the man, thank you very much. Everyone, Knup Solutions, they are amazing content, the whole nine yards, you gotta go with them, I said so. You gotta do it.

RYAN KNUPPEL

[Laughs]. A little pitch at the end, thank you, Tom. I appreciate it. Thanks for being on, really appreciate your time, my friend.

THOMAS CHRISTOPHER

Thank you, guys. Take care. Thank you.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Alright, that was Thomas Christopher of Toppem Sports, one of the great guys of the industry. I really got to know him over the last several months, and I think if you know him, you’re gonna like him as well, so I encourage you, if you’ve heard this show and you’re intrigued by what he’s doing, or you simply have questions about the space, or you just wanna talk about the new innovative space that’s coming, please, reach out to Tom, he’s very accessible and loves chatting with people, so I encourage you to do that. We’ll put all the links in the show notes for you to make that happen. Alright, that is episode 203, we are done with this one. Until next time, stay safe, take care, I’m Ryan Knuppel checking out for the day. Have a great one. Bye-bye.

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